Curse

PathOfPerfection · Aug 30, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Hi,

I like a mesmer in pvp, but cant find anything funny/cool in pve with a mesmer..

I tried it a couple of times but just dont want to play anymore after level 15 dunno why maby cause of the skills cause it looks ur passive.

anyway can someone give me some hints to have more fun with my mesmer?

ty

Pwny Ride · Aug 31, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Unfortunately mesmer isnt a aquired taste. You either like em or you dont.

-Makai- · Aug 31, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Some good points about Mesmers in PvE:

Interrupts are great against boss spellcasters, especially healers. Power Block can render monk types helpless.

Slowing down enemy spellcasting with Arcane Conundrum, Migraine and Frustration is a considerable boon in PvE Hard Mode.

Mesmers are great at energy management.

Mesmer spells ignore armor ratings.

You can do some decent condition combos with Fragility, Hypochondria, and Epidemic.

You can remove hexes from your allies, thus saving the monks a little trouble.

Backfire does really nice damage at later levels.

Empathy is a solid skill to use from start to finish.

Illusionary Weaponry Mesmer is a fun to use when assisting newer players.

There's a few more, but I can't think of them. Mesmers are the swiss army knife of GW.

The Mesmer is more challenging to play in PvE than most classes. Yes, it is a "passive" class. You're here to put sugar in the gas tank instead of blowing up or maiming the car.

charlote · Sep 01, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Mesmer, Hmm were to start, there really fun =]..

They got interupts, and there just annoying to many casters thats why i love then

.

Redfeather1975 · Sep 01, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Just for fun I'm going to speak in opposites for this post.

Pwny Ride is wrong. They are very much an acquired taste.
Also if you want a super mean mesmer community, the gwonline mesmer forum is one of the most dead profession forums I have seen in fansites. They post nothing there, not including their weekly mesmer events.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

No offense to guru intended! I don't know why they all hang out at gwonline. lol

Because gwonline is where people who are terrible at Guild Wars and care more about roleplaying hang out.

There are some advantages to using a mesmer, but most classes surpass it in the majority of areas. If you do play one, focusing on domination (interrupts, damage skills) is probably the most effective method. You want to make pve mobs, inherently stupid, kill themselves, while preventing the majority of heavy caster damage headed your way - either by interrupting, or by putting enough conditional damage hexes on it that it dies faster.

Terra Xin · Sep 01, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Because gwonline is where people who are terrible at Guild Wars and care more about roleplaying hang out.

There are some advantages to using a mesmer, but most classes surpass it in the majority of areas. If you do play one, focusing on domination (interrupts, damage skills) is probably the most effective method. You want to make pve mobs, inherently stupid, kill themselves, while preventing the majority of heavy caster damage headed your way - either by interrupting, or by putting enough conditional damage hexes on it that it dies faster.

Yeah but guru has people that squabble about nothing, while at the same time managing to draw a discussion about a subject that is totally irrelevant to the original thread. I go to gwonline when guru pisses me off, which happens a lot... but I always come back because the discussion is more interesting... and it's tidier.

So that was just an example of what I was talking about... in the example above. As to what it is that makes mesmers so fun. Well. I'm one! We have the sexiest clothes and we're so good, other players think that they are godly when you're in their party and take all the credit for it!

I wouldn't compare us to other classes... that's exactly the reason why people think that mesmers are ineffective.

(hey... sorry to bring this up... but your signature doesn't make much sense...?)

Avarre · Sep 01, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

(hey... sorry to bring this up... but your signature doesn't make much sense...?)

Oh yes it does.

Quote:

I wouldn't compare us to other classes... that's exactly the reason why people think that mesmers are ineffective.

The problem is that in an issue of class and role selection for a fixed number of slots in a group, every class has to be compared to other classes in terms of effectiveness. What's most effective becomes the most commonly run and accepted by people, for the most part.

Redfeather1975 · Sep 01, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Because gwonline is where people who are terrible at Guild Wars and care more about roleplaying hang out.

The regular mesmer players there are super nice though. They wouldn't say mean things about you.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

The regular mesmer players there are super nice though. They wouldn't say mean things about you.

I thought I was being pretty kind with how lightly I put it.

Anyways, fun as it is, no more derailing onto that topic.

Terra Xin · Sep 02, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The problem is that in an issue of class and role selection for a fixed number of slots in a group, every class has to be compared to other classes in terms of effectiveness. What's most effective becomes the most commonly run and accepted by people, for the most part.

Yes but then you have different levels of effectiveness within the professions itself, so that may skewer your point of view. You also have builds that vary in effectiveness depending on where you are fighting, or who you are fighting against. Then you also have player skill; their knowledge of different monsters, how well they coordinate with their party at the time, how quickly they react to unexpected circumstances, miscellaneous stuff like kiting, aggro, pulling, using the skills at the right time... every one of these has seen its share of in depth discussion over the two years.

All of what I have said above have little to do with what profession you are, or how one profession differs from another. Yet, they are all just as important with regards to being useful in Guild Wars.

The idea of comparing classes is found as the single simplified process you'd expect from a PuG when looking for people (and I'm not trashing PuGs here) ... but you can't ask for anything more otherwise groups would take forever to be formed.

I don't care whether or not it's fine to say: "Mesmer's are the least effective class - so if possible, look for an alternative." I do have a problem with the idea that people think that because mesmers are ineffective, then anyone who plays a mesmer will always be less effective than any other class, regardless of how they would actually perform if they were taken into battle.

There's such a wide variation in what builds that can be run and how they can be compared to other professions - in such a way that you can design a whole new set of forums dedicated to the discussion, and it still wouldn't be resolved.

Sorry to go off topic again, but you're signature is.... striking, Avarre. I think that a person's knowledge can go way beyond their own experience. But knowledge cannot teach you to reach its highest level until you've experienced it first hand. You can know everything there is to know about the world and not set foot outside your own home, but it's impossible to experience it all. The idea that our knowledge can go beyond our own experiences is pretty much the foundation of what we call non-fiction... and our imaginations. Note that I'm not saying that knowledge is higher than experience or vice versa... they tend to go hand in hand.

Anyway... going back to the topic. Although comparing classes for superiority isn't recommended, I did see a quote made by someone who very cleverly summed up the differences between a ranger and a mesmer which resulted in a 'neutral' conclusion

here it is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven Flameheart

Both are strong at interrupts and disruption, but the Ranger's can be used much more often, whilst the mesmer's have better effect. Therefore, the ranger can continually cause bother, whilst the mesmer is about capitalizing on the perfect moment.

The mesmer has skills dealing with energy and casting, whilst the ranger gets conditions to apply considerable degeneration. The ranger also can have a pet that deals out damage to the enemy.

As for which is "better", the answer is neither really. They have very different situations to excel in, and require different styles of play to be effective.

Avarre · Sep 02, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Sorry to go off topic again, but you're signature is.... striking, Avarre. I think that a person's knowledge can go way beyond their own experience. But knowledge cannot teach you to reach its highest level until you've experienced it first hand. You can know everything there is to know about the world and not set foot outside your own home, but it's impossible to experience it all. The idea that our knowledge can go beyond our own experiences is pretty much the foundation of what we call non-fiction... and our imaginations. Note that I'm not saying that knowledge is higher than experience or vice versa... they tend to go hand in hand.

Theoretical knowledge is limited without practical perception and formulation of knowledge through experience. No matter how much you think you know, it cannot be proven true or worthwhile until tested. Just because you have an idea of what works on paper, doesn't mean it will work in practice. Something that a great deal of Guild Wars players seem to forget when they make assumptions and statements about things they are clueless about.

Quote:

Both are strong at interrupts and disruption, but the Ranger's can be used much more often, whilst the mesmer's have better effect. Therefore, the ranger can continually cause bother, whilst the mesmer is about capitalizing on the perfect moment.

The effects are relatively minor. Draining energy from mobs is pointless, slight damage when you have classes built to deal damage isn't amazing... etc. Rangers have the effect of Daze, which applies much more solid, continual shutdown on a target. In PvE, because you don't have to worry about 'breaking' mob groups like you do with enemies in PvP, capitalizing on moments is practically irrelevant compared to being able to do the most in the timeframe of meet mob-kill mob.

Dodo The Extinct · Sep 02, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

To me, I really enjoy Mesmers because they give me a sense of control in a fight. When I first started GW, after a week of trying the Professions, I chose Monk to specialize in. I chose monk because I wanted to have control over an important aspect of the game: keeping people alive.To me, that was one of the most important jobs. However, I soon discovered that monking in the higher levels of pvp was just full of stress and tons of focus swapping.

So I decided to go to the Mesmer because although I wasn't controlling if my team died, I was controlling if their casters/fighters used their skills. Now that I have, I can say that I enjoy playing it much more than monks. Having and enforcing control over a monk is very fun, and not nearly as stressful as monking (to me). Plus, it is a job where you can make a massive difference on the battlefield.

And thats why I like playing a Mesmer

Dean Harper · Sep 02, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Mesmers, like everyone else has basically said, are very hard to grasp as a beginning player. They require knowlege of other classes (proving Avarre's signature to be true

) and skill to play well. Often, many beginners start off with other classes because they say, "Mesmer? wtf is a Mesmer? They've got some gay armor!!! OOOO, look!!! A WARRIOR!!!" And sometimes, there comes along a person who wants to start off GW with a challenge and something new that they've never heard of before. They work hard at learning their skills and the skills of others, and how to play well, and they make AWSOME Mesmers. Unfortunately, those players are few and far between... It's really up to you to decide if you want a challenging profession, or a profession that takes almost no skill to use. Of course, ALL professions take SOME skill to use, but professions like the warrior take much less skill to use.

-Dean

Dean Harper · Sep 02, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Pwny Ride is right. They are very much an acquired taste.

Lol, he said that they are NOT an aquired taste....

Nosjack · Sep 03, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Mesmers can be very usefull in PVE especially as Avarre said, if you focus on Domination Magic. I mean lets face it, its not called "Domination" Magic because it likes to dress up and likes to engage in autoerotic asphyxiation.

Energy Surge + Auspicious Incantation, Energy Burn, Chaos Storm, Cry of Frustration, its all a recipie for some even spread damage dealing and energy draining.

You wont get massive spikes in PVE with Mesmers along the lines of Elementalists, but you do get a nice spread of heavy damage, like jam on toast.

And plus, Mesmers get masks.

I mean, end of story.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosjack

I mean lets face it, its not called "Domination" Magic because it likes to dress up and likes to engage in autoerotic asphyxiation.

It's not? Damnit, that was the main reason I made a Mesmer! I even bought a Willcrusher!

Terra Xin · Sep 03, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It's not? Damnit, that was the main reason I made a Mesmer! I even bought a Willcrusher!

well I dance over the bodies of my enemies after they've been slain. The nature of the mesmer comes with more than just their skillbar.

Plus you have to look good while fighting, it adds a certain power to the class (that... of course, can't be quantified :P)

Quote:

Theoretical knowledge is limited without practical perception and formulation of knowledge through experience. No matter how much you think you know, it cannot be proven true or worthwhile until tested. Just because you have an idea of what works on paper, doesn't mean it will work in practice. Something that a great deal of Guild Wars players seem to forget when they make assumptions and statements about things they are clueless about.

Yes, exactly. But it doesn't matter if the things that you know are right or wrong unless you choose to want to prove such things. Keep that in mind. Experience has a single straight forward path that can only contradict when knowledge persists, but unlike knowledge, a resolve can always be found, and the path continues onward - such as the differences between paper and practice. When a resolve isn't found, then knowledge alters our own experiences, and we wind up developing our own beliefs. Now, beliefs can be contradicted. It can't be experienced - not directly, and the ideas pertaining to proof become irrelevant. That's why I think a person's knowledge can go beyond their experiences, regardless of whether or not it can be proven.

Redfeather1975 · Sep 03, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

Lol, he said that they are NOT an aquired taste....

Eeep!

I traveled back in time and changed my post magically.

Sab · Sep 03, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Yes, exactly. But it doesn't matter if the things that you know are right or wrong unless you choose to want to prove such things. Keep that in mind. Experience has a single straight forward path that can only contradict when knowledge persists, but unlike knowledge, a resolve can always be found, and the path continues onward - such as the differences between paper and practice. When a resolve isn't found, then knowledge alters our own experiences, and we wind up developing our own beliefs. Now, beliefs can be contradicted. It can't be experienced - not directly, and the ideas pertaining to proof become irrelevant. That's why I think a person's knowledge can go beyond their experiences, regardless of whether or not it can be proven.

I think you're over-complicating it. His sig makes sense when you see PVErs try to argue that Rit spike wasn't overpowered. They have zero experience in HA, and their resulting arguments reflect that - nonsensical trash that would be easily proven wrong had they actually played HA. I've yet to see an armchair theorist on Guru who can discuss issues he has no direct experience with, without sounding like a complete idiot.